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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Some comments from Garry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Baker, Garry R.
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 July 2015 12:49<br>
<b>To:</b> Mowat, Mary R.; Glaves, Helen M.; Henni, Paul H.<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Shelley, Claire E.; Harrison, Matthew<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Cost to archive data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Mary, Paul, Helen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This is an interesting discussion and one that NERC data community has had several times in recent years on the funding of its data centres specifically regarding
the NERC funded ‘Discovery Science’ Projects and ‘Strategic Research Programmes’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In an ideal world there would be funds made available for the long-term data management and ingestion of all data created from projects and programmes on a
case by case basis (with each being investigated and costed, itself a costly exercise). The source of this money to be established within the funding call when the project/programme was defined and initiated. In the case of the larger NERC programmes individual
costings are ultimately used with an initial assessment that between 3 to 5 % of the programme funds will be needed to undertake this function/work (at programme planning or call phases). There are however not many of these funded each year by NERC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Our initial evidence in the geoscience disciplines is that approximately 3-3.5% of the grant/programme is needed to undertake the long-term data management
of the scientific data. In the specific case of the smaller ‘Discovery Science’ projects, which are more prevalent as more are funded by NERC each year this is not a feasible solution so instead a top-slice funding model is applied at a NERC level. This
is presently the equivalent of 1.66% of the Discovery Science grant funding pot which is distributed between the five NERC data centres. We will have a review of that 1.66% figure and the underpinning funding model in 18-20 months’ time to ascertain if it
is working. It is also built on a set of assumptions (1: only a proportion of the projects producing data which cannot be said of the larger programmes which always produce scientific data 2: that large ticket items need to be considered and skew the model
and 3: that an underpinning data centre function/infrastructure is provided and funded by someone).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Given the complexity and range of data under consideration in this specific case I feel they are more akin to ‘Strategic Research’ Programmes so the 3 to 5%
costs estimates are more appropriate. How this is funded (the source of the money) is a separate discussion to the understanding and agreement that this work needs to be done to undertake professional long-term data management of this scientific data. The
challenge here is separating these two discussions and seeking agreements and solutions to each. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have read Peter’s comments on an ‘absolute range’ being more useful with an acceptance that anything in the initial stages being funded by a MEDIN DAC but
I would counter (in the spirit of constructive dialogue) that if we were to receive 50 smaller ‘budget surveys’ in any one year that too would break the data centre model if we are expected to find the money/resources/infrastructure for them as much as fewer
larger geotechnical survey. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Of specific note is that the NERC funded Discovery Science and Strategic Research Programmes have funding models but they too rely upon the underlying data
centres, its infrastructure/staff/resources which do not (Note *1: caveat) and therefore the underlying data centre is provided by a co-located NERC Research Centre using the diminishing ‘National Capability’ funding they receive. The very same funding they
also have to run their Research Centre and undertake their science. I expect we are probably in danger of repeating the “the programmes cannot consider that cost burden” while the research centres/data centres will say “our staffing/infrastructure cannot
accommodate that burden” leading to some future discussions on a funding source while we all hopefully agree that the professional long-term data management needs to be done in accordance with the now widespread adoption of ‘Data Policies’ in organisations
and government. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Garry
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(Copied to Matt and Claire - so they are kept in the loop on these discussions)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Mowat, Mary R.
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 July 2015 10:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Baker, Garry R.; Glaves, Helen M.<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Henni, Paul H.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> FW: Cost to archive data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Garry, Baker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do you have any comments/advice on this, and can you get back to me in the next couple of days?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The 3-5% was suggested from Robin McCandliss as in the NERC guideline data management costs and whether that could be used as a ball park figure in general
when esimating costing for archiving in the MEDIN DACs, but the comments from Pete (Crown Estate) suggest this figure maybe isn’t always appropriate for these industry (renewables) type of surveys.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do you have any similar experience from other projects?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Mary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:medin_dacwg-bounces@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk">medin_dacwg-bounces@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a> [<a href="mailto:medin_dacwg-bounces@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk">mailto:medin_dacwg-bounces@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Edmonds, Peter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 July 2015 09:55<br>
<b>To:</b> Postlethwaite, Clare; <a href="mailto:medin_dacwg@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk">
medin_dacwg@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Medin_dacwg] Cost to archive data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Clare,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m not sure that this will be all that helpful to be honest. For a £10,000 budget survey 3-5% (£300-500) is not that material, a reasonable number, and could
probably be found. However, for a £9m geotechnical survey, 3-5% (£270k - £450k) is certainly material, and most importantly way out! I think that an absolute cost range may be more helpful. Say costs of up to £x would/could be covered by the DAC, but above
that there is a sliding scale depending on the factors you outline in the document up to a ceiling of £y. I would have thought that £500 - £5,000 was reasonable. I certainly can’t imagine wanting to spend more than that on data archival.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I also imagine that a suite of examples will be helpful. What might a typical, well-structured hydrographic survey cost to archive vs. what is the maximum could
be imagined for a large and poorly structured set of data from a survey? Etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As it is I can see industry baulking at the thought of an extra 5% on their already huge costs (we estimate around £30m at risk spend on pre-consent surveying
for a typical size offshore wind farm). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Many thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Pete<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Peter Edmonds</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Spatial Data Manager</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#00B050">Please think - do you need to print this email?</span></b>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:medin_dacwg-bounces@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk">medin_dacwg-bounces@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a> [<a href="mailto:medin_dacwg-bounces@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk">mailto:medin_dacwg-bounces@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Postlethwaite, Clare<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 20, 2015 9:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:medin_dacwg@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk">medin_dacwg@mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Medin_dacwg] Cost to archive data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dear MEDIN DAC Working Group,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">One of the actions on me at last week's meeting was to draft a paragraph on the cost to archive data at DACs. Can you give it a read to check you are happy with the message
and that the 3-5% estimate holds for the types of data you deal with. Just to remind you, this was requested by DEFRA, the PSEG " access to industry data" project and to be a FAQ on the MEDIN website. So I'm looking for comments on the text itself and whether
it is appropriate to be used for those purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">All comments to me please by 27</span><sup><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">th</span></sup><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
July.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Best wishes,<br>
Clare <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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