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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hello Neil,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This discussion hinges on whether vocabulary population should
be used in imaginative ways to patch limitations in data models, such as having
a vocabulary entry that is a list to implement a one-to-many relationship where
the data model dictates one-to-one. I have argued vociferously over the past
ten years that this is vocabulary abuse and should be avoided and have put a
lot of effort into rebuilding metadata where that practice has been used in the
past.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In an ideal world any platform code database should have a hull
or equivalent as its fundamental entity to which are attached a series of
time-limited attributes such as name, platform class, callsign and flag. The
attributes considered important for cruise reporting may be determined from the
original ROSCOP form section A02 as ship name (now represented by a ship code)
and the platform type. Callsign was added as an attribute when the ROSCOP was
revised into the CSR. My thinking is that if the ship name cannot be elucidated
then we need an unambiguous way of expressing that fact, which is what ZZ99
delivers. This is not bucket term usage.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The question you now raise is whether the flag of the platform
is an attribute excluded from the original ROSCOP/CSR that we now feel has
sufficient significance for it to be included in the CSR data model. My vote
would be ‘no’, but if the majority feel the answer is ‘yes’ then we should be
looking to extend the CSR data model rather than implementing a vocabulary
quick fix.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cheers, Roy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
Neil Holdsworth [mailto:NeilH@ices.dk] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 01 November 2010 13:58<br>
<b>To:</b> Dick M.A. Schaap; Lowry, Roy K<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Accessions; platforms@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk;
sdn-tech@seadatanet.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Platforms] ROMANIA - MULTIPLE SHIPS OF ROMANIA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Dick, Roy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I disagree with your approach, i know this discussion has
surfaced in the past and we seem to be at the same sticking point. The
‘unknown’ term is fine if it is in fact the case that no information is known
about the vessel, but in these cases something is known and being deliberately
overlooked in order to keep from adding new entries. I don’t like using ZZ99 as
a ‘bucket code’ to place everything in that doesn’t meet with the simple model
approach. This will cause us some headaches in the future with CSR’s if we
simply use ZZ99, as the country listed in the CSR is not necessarily the
country where the vessel was chartered from – and we will lose this
information. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So before you agree to lose this information, i want you to
think about whether this is valuable information for someone looking at the
historical data to have access to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks, Neil.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
Dick M.A. Schaap [mailto:dick@maris.nl] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 01 November 2010 13:10<br>
<b>To:</b> Lowry, Roy K<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Accessions; platforms@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk;
sdn-tech@seadatanet.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Platforms] ROMANIA - MULTIPLE SHIPS OF ROMANIA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Dear Roy,<br>
<br>
I rather go for a general 'Unknown' term in the Vessel vocabulary than starting
a whole list of:<br>
MULTIPLE SHIPS OF ROMANIA<br>
MULTIPLE SHIPS OF BULGARIA <br>
etc<br>
etc<br>
etc<br>
<br>
So I encourage using the ZZ99 term and not diluting the Vessel directory with
all new entries.<br>
<br>
Hope all colleagues agree.<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
<br>
Dick M.A. Schaap<br>
SeaDataNet Technical Coordinator<br>
<br>
<br>
On 01/11/2010 11:44, Lowry, Roy K wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Dear
All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In
cases such as these we should simply use the generic ‘unknown’ ship code
(ZZ99). What guarantee do we have that the flags of these ships were
Romanian?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I’ve
copied this message to the SeaDataNet TTT list so discussion of this issue
doesn’t need to wait until December. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Cheers,
Roy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:platforms-bounces@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk">platforms-bounces@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a>
[<a href="mailto:platforms-bounces@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk">mailto:platforms-bounces@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:accessions@ices.dk">accessions@ices.dk</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 01 November 2010 10:32<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:platforms@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk">platforms@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Platforms] ROMANIA - MULTIPLE SHIPS OF ROMANIA</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Dear Platform Group,<br>
<br>
The code MULTIPLE SHIPS OF ROMANIA from ROMANIA has been added according to the
old definitions of "90" and "99" codes for unknown vessels.
The topic of handling "unknown" codes has to be resolved by
discussions at SeaDataNet at their next technical meeting.<br>
<br>
<b>Original Requester : Gabriel Ion (<a href="mailto:gion@geoecomar.ro">gion@geoecomar.ro</a>)</b><br>
<br>
Code : 7390<br>
Name : MULTIPLE SHIPS OF ROMANIA<br>
Flag : ROMANIA - RO (ISO Country Code)<br>
Platform Class : Vessel of opportunity<br>
<br>
<b>General Comments:</b><br>
We named UVOO_1 for any Unknown Vessel Of Opportunity used by GeoEcoMar prior
to year 2002 <br>
(added by: Gabriel Ion - 20/10/2010 00:00:00)<br>
<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
The ICES Data Centre<br>
<br>
International Council for the Exploration of the Sea <br>
Email: <a href="mailto:accessions@ices.dk">accessions@ices.dk</a><br>
Web: <a href="http://www.ices.dk">http://www.ices.dk</a><br>
<br>
Tel: +45 3338 6718 Fax: +45 3393 4215<br>
H.C. Andersens Boulevard 44-46<br>
1553 Copenhagen V. Denmark<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.ices.dk/datacentre/requests" target="_new">ICES Platform
Code Requests Application</a><br>
Read the latest ICES Data Centre e-News <a
href="http://www.ices.dk/datacentre/updates/DC_update.htm" target="_new">online</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>This email has been generated by the ICES Platform Code Requests Application<o:p></o:p></p>
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