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<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Message d'origine-----<br>
De : Roy Lowry [mailto:rkl@bodc.ac.uk] <br>
Envoyé : lundi 27 octobre 2008 22:18<br>
À : seavox@biwebs1-2.nerc-liv.ac.uk; olivier lauret<br>
Objet : RE: [Seavox] "Sea Areas"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi Olivier,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>First, I have no objection to adding 'Pacific Ocean' and
'Atlantic Ocean' into the hierarchy unless anybody can raise arguments against.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:Wingdings'>à</span>OK, thank you
Roy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US>Secondly, I strongly feel that dataset
resolution is a totally separate issue. </span>With the proposed vocabulary I
am trying to address 'spatial coverage' in the ISO19115 domain, not dataset
resolution. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-family:Wingdings'>à</span> <span
lang=EN-US>MMmmmmh..Not exactly. Of course I totally agree that your vocabulary
server is about ISO 19115 location, but what I was talking about is not
properly a ‘resolution’ information, I think. Besides, this is
exactly the problem: the words “global” and “regional” can
mean [for remote sensing & models users] “coverage”; for you it
means “resolution”. Actually to me in that case it is neither a
coverage, nor a resolution, but probably something at the intersection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I have no problems at all with your vocabulary terms for
resolution that could be used to populate a relevant field in an ISO19115
profile. The problem is that our current SeaDataNet ISO19115 profiles don't
have suitable extensions for this information. This is something we in the TTT
need to look at for the next version of the SDN profiles. For now, the most
important issue for me is that we don't pollute the spatial coverage list I
plan to build with terms that use the same words for a totally different
entity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:Wingdings'>à</span><span
lang=EN-US>Yes extending SDN ISO19115 profile in a next version to take into account
such information, or such a way to understand information, could be a good
thing. It is typically the kind of domain specific information that cannot be
supported by default by ISO 19115, which is a generic shell.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>It is far from my mind to pollute the vocabulary
server, I just want to get your opinion about this question: when proposing a
dataset on a given area through a database, a search engine, or through a
mapping software, what can distinguish two ‘twins’ datasets with
the same parameters?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>An example. A few months ago we discussed
with people involved in JRA5 (Mediterranean Sea) about climatologies. They were
asking if the data used to compute the climatologies were geographically extracted
from the usual “global” dataset, or coming from the specific “Mediterranean
Sea” dataset. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>In that case two different datasets can be
described by the same metadata, they are both covering the same area, which is Mediterranean
Sea. We use to face this problem, actually, and the only solution we found was
to add the words “global” and “regional” in the dataset
description. It is the case for instance in the MERSEA search engine (<a
href="http://www.mersea.eu.org/Information/dynamic/MerseaSearch?profile=partner">http://www.mersea.eu.org/Information/dynamic/MerseaSearch?profile=partner</a>),
that implements this concept.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Such “global” and “regional”
terms wouldn’t belong to the “Sea areas” vocabulary server. The
only consequence I see on the vocabulary server is that using “Sea areas”
list would be mandatory only if it is a “regional” dataset.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Olivier.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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src="cid:image001.jpg@01C93B78.05EAD480" alt="LogoCLS_haut"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<td width=542 valign=top style='width:406.4pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Olivier Lauret<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>CLS - Space Oceanography Division<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Products Dissemination Dpt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>8-10 rue Hermes, 31520 Ramonville St.Agne<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>France<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Tel. (+33) (0) 561 39 48 51<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Fax:(+33) (0) 561 39 47 80<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://www.cls.fr/"><span style='color:blue'>http://www.cls.fr</span></a><br>
<a href="http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/"><span style='color:blue'>http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://www.esdi-humboldt.eu/home"><span style='color:blue'>http://www.esdi-humboldt.eu/home</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://www.seadatanet.org/"><span lang=EN-US style='color:blue'>http://www.seadatanet.org/</span></a></span><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/"><span lang=EN-US style='color:blue'>netCDF
Climate and Forecast</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Cheers, Roy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>>>> "olivier lauret"
<olauret@cls.fr> 10/22/08 5:32 PM >>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear Roy,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sorry for the delay, I'm back to my office after
vacation. Completely agree with your plan, especially about your project of
spatial database working with OGC webservices! I have a few comments that I'd
like to live to your assessment:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- Areas such as Pacific Ocean and Atlantic Ocean are not
provided; the fact is that it is important for ocean models and remote sensing
data sets to have them as keywords. In other words I wish the ontology allowed
a relationship like : <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>World >> Pacific Ocean >> North Pacific Ocean
>> ..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> >> Pacific Ocean >> South Pacific Ocean
>> ..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- Still in the same field of view, ie about "remote
sensing and model world". In these communities people use to speak about
'global' coverage versus a given area, for ex Mediterranean Sea. As 'global' is
not properly an area but more a space scale, that means "worldwide"
but not only, how do Seadatanet can deal with such important questions? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Here at CLS we choosed to introduce a vocabulary keyword
about those scales. If the keyword value is 'global' then nothing about
geographic areas names. If the keyword value is 'regional' then it is mandatory
to mention which one is the geographic area concerned, following Seavox. That's
a possibility, but there must be something better to do.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I remember we already talk about that, but I am not sure
of the status of this discussion?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>What is your opinion on that?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Olivier.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Message d'origine-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>De : seavox-bounces@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk
[mailto:seavox-bounces@biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk] De la part de Roy Lowry<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Envoyé : vendredi 10 octobre 2008 17:40<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>À : seavox@biwebs1-2.nerc-liv.ac.uk<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Objet : [Seavox] "Sea Areas"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Attached is a concept map of a proposed nucleus list of
"Sea Areas" (defined something like named subsets of the Earth's
surface of interest to the oceanographic data management domain for use as data
discovery keywords). Consequently, it includes chunks of land to provide
context for inland waters that are increasingly falling into the oceanographic
data centre sphere of interest).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The terms included come from four sources as indicated by
the bubble colour. The pale blue terms bear a striking resemblance to the
unpublished IHO 2002 S23 revision. The red/orange terms are the so-called
ROSCOP extensions to C23. The green terms are terms I've added to cover, with
geographical context, freshwater bodies that have been brought to my attention
as being of interest to 'oceanographic data centres'. The purple term is the
cause of all the controversy in IHO and the reason why S23 hasn't been revised
since 1953.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The terms are organised into an ontology that may be
navigated by starting at 'World' then following the arrows.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>My plan would be to implement these terms as a single
list in the vocabulary server with the relationships between terms as shown by
the arrows. Further terms may be added as required, providing they are
proposed together with the terms to which they should be mapped (ie broader
areas that enclose the new term or overlap with it). This new list would
replace the existing C16 vocabulary used in SeaDataNet. Naturally mappings to
the new list would be provided wherever possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>However, I plan to go further than this and set up a
spatial database holding a polygon corresponding to each term that would be
accessible through WFS and/or WMS. Service URLs would be included in the term
definition field.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Initially, I would like the governance group to consider
the following questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(1) Are there any reasons why this plan shouldn't go
ahead?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(2) Should 'Sea of Japan' be included as a term under
SeaVoX governance?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(3) Should we stick with the local spellings such Jawa
Sea and Tai-Wan Strait? If not, which terms should we change?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Any other comments on the terms included would be
welcome. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Note that I would rather avoid requests for additional
terms at this stage until I get something together. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The concept map is also available in CMAP XML export
format if anyone needs it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Cheers, Roy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
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