[Platforms] CANADA - ONONDAGA (Additional Information)

Tue Feb 11 09:24:18 GMT 2014

Thanks Roy

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: Lowry, Roy K. [mailto:rkl at bodc.ac.uk] 
Sent: 10 February 2014 20:08
To: Neil Holdsworth; Ouellet, Mathieu; Accessions; platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [Platforms] CANADA - ONONDAGA (Additional Information)

Hi Neil and Mathieu,

I actually assigned 'propelled manned submersible' to USS Pogy, on a day where my 'usage metadata' facet predominated over my 'discovery metadata' facet, for which I can see the value of 'naval vessel'. Consequently, I'll go with its adoption with the caveat that in an ideal world we should consider systems that will support both.

Cheers, Roy.
________________________________________
From: Neil Holdsworth [NeilH at ices.dk]
Sent: 10 February 2014 15:06
To: Ouellet, Mathieu; Lowry, Roy K.; Accessions; platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [Platforms] CANADA - ONONDAGA (Additional Information)

Hi Matthieu,

Thanks for the more detailed analysis, I am much wiser than at the beginning of the day! Your information would suggest that even if the 'naval vessel' definition was tweaked, the primary characteristic of the activity is sampling from a submerged platform, and so propelled manned submersible still holds.

As you suggest, submersible is a bit of a catch all 'top category' and the rule of thumb should be to resolve to the highest level of detail where we have the information.

We will wait to see if Roy would like to recast his vote.

Best, Neil

From: Ouellet, Mathieu [mailto:Mathieu.Ouellet at dfo-mpo.gc.ca]
Sent: 10 February 2014 15:38
To: Neil Holdsworth; Lowry, Roy K.; Accessions; platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk
Subject: RE: [Platforms] CANADA - ONONDAGA (Additional Information)

Hello everyone

We have yet another Royal Canadian Navy submarine: the HMCS Ojibwa (18OJ), currently no platform class assigned and many missing attributes that I will fill soon.

To answer Neil's question from a Canadian perspective, these navy submarines measured temperature and sound velocity vs. depth from the 1960s to the late 1990s in the North Atlantic (from Bermuda to the West Coast of Scotland), using eXpendableBathyTHermographs, likely for military purposes (primarily).

Compiling data from our three submarines (Onondaga, Ojibwa and Okanagan):
15% of observations are profiles starting in the top 10 m; 75% of observations are profiles starting between 10 m and 30 m depth; 10% of observations are profiles starting below 30 m depth and 76 m depth
-->The average profile length is 72 m; average starting depth is 18 m; and average end depth 90 m; the shortest profile is 17 m "long".

So we can clearly rule out naval vessel because of the surface criterion, and I would too vouch for "propelled manned submersible" (21), though it begs the question of what is "submersible" (20) reserved for ? Perhaps for cases when we don't know whether the sub-categories 21-27 would apply but for which we know that the platform is a submersible of some sort ?

Regards

Mathieu

De : Neil Holdsworth [mailto:NeilH at ices.dk] Envoyé : 10 février 2014 07:39 À : Lowry, Roy K.; Accessions; platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk<mailto:platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk>
Cc : Ouellet, Mathieu
Objet : RE: [Platforms] CANADA - ONONDAGA (Additional Information)

Hi Roy,

Thanks for picking this up, nobody has jumped into the debate so I will try and pick up the 'ICES' viewpoint. I don't have a first hand understanding of exactly what type of observations these naval submarines are undertaking, so what I'm about to say may be off the mark.

Naval vessel is perhaps too broad a term as there can be a great variation in the type of vessel which may encompass several platform classes. Furthermore, we have to be 100% sure that the measurements that the submarine take are on the surface otherwise the 'naval vessel' L06 definition would be incorrect:

"A platform operating on the surface of the water column in unpredictable locations that is primarily equipped, manned and operated for military purposes. Includes surface warships of all sizes and logistic support vessels."

So I would vote for 'propelled manned submersible' as the most accurate term in the platform class that gives the best match of the nature of the vessel.

Btw - for consistency with its derivitaves, should '20 - submersible' have a definition that states 'in the water column' rather than 'within a water body'?

Best, Neil

From: Lowry, Roy K. [mailto:rkl at bodc.ac.uk]
Sent: 06 February 2014 12:34
To: Accessions; platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk<mailto:platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk>
Cc: Mathieu.Ouellet at dfo-mpo.gc.ca<mailto:Mathieu.Ouellet at dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: [Platforms] CANADA - ONONDAGA (Additional Information)

Dear All,

I noticed a couple of naval submarines going through in the past couple of days - Onondaga and Okanagan - plus there's some other about such as USS Pogy. The platform class assignments have been totally inconsistent - with these three we have 'naval vessel', 'submersible' and 'propelled manned submersible'. Could we possibly agree on one of them and then standardise?

My vote would go for 'naval vessel' because to me that is the main operational constraint on the vessel's data collection activities, but I appreciate that isn't the only possible viewpoint. Any other opinions?

Cheers, Roy.

Please note that I now work part-time from Tuesday to Thursday.  E-mail response on other days is possible but not guaranteed!

From: accessions at ices.dk<mailto:accessions at ices.dk> [mailto:accessions at ices.dk]
Sent: 03 February 2014 15:04
To: platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk<mailto:platforms at mailman.nerc-liv.ac.uk>
Cc: Mathieu.Ouellet at dfo-mpo.gc.ca<mailto:Mathieu.Ouellet at dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: [Platforms] CANADA - ONONDAGA (Additional Information)

Dear Platform Group,

Additional information including spelling correction has come in for the vessel ONONDAGA<http://admin.ices.dk/requests/Default.aspx?id=708> from CANADA.

Code : 18OD
Name : ONONDAGA<http://admin.ices.dk/requests/Default.aspx?id=708>
Flag : CANADA - CA (ISO Country Code)
Call Sign : CGNQ
Title : HMCS
Platform Class : 20 Submersible
Pennant : S73
Commissioned Date : 1967-06-22
Decommissioned Date : 2000-07-28
Current Length : 90
Built : 1967-06-22
Notes : Oberon Class submarine which operated primarily with the Maritime Forces Atlantic, (Royal) Canadian Navy,

Additional Information Sources:

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Onondaga_(S73)

________________________________

General Comments:

1965-09-25 is launch date
(Marilynn Sorensen 03/02/2014 00:00:00)

Original spelling mistake "Onandaga" changed to "Onondaga".
(Marilynn Sorensen 03/02/2014 00:00:00)
________________________________

Kind regards,
The ICES Data Centre

International Council for the Exploration of the Sea
Email: accessions at ices.dk<mailto:accessions at ices.dk>
Web: http://www.ices.dk

Tel: +45 3338 6718 Fax: +45 3393 4215
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ICES Platform Code Requests Application<http://admin.ices.dk/requests>
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