[Platforms] changing code

Mon Nov 15 16:38:18 GMT 2010

Dear Jordi and Roy, 

 I agree with your decision Jordi. 

Sorry for the delay on answering you but here in the IEO we have had problem with the e-mail server from 6 to 11 of November. This afternoon I am recovering all this e-mails. 

Un saludo, María Jesús

-----Mensaje original-----
De: jordi sorribas [mailto:sorribas at cmima.csic.es] 
Enviado el: 08 November 2010 15:17
Para: Lowry, Roy K.
CC: Alberto H. J.; María Jesús García Fernández; platforms; sorribas at utm.csic.es; Sara IDE ICM
Asunto: Re: changing code

Hi Roy,
Thnk you for your fast answer.

Ok,  As we will use Mikado for CSR generation on our Data Center and another web application made for us to create CSR onboard our ships, we will hard code internally this translation in the XML CSR form. We will use the 29SG code for naming the files but 29AH for CSR and CDI internals also.
Maria Jesús, Are you agree with the suggestion of Roy?
Cheers,
Jordi

El 08/11/10 14:07, Lowry, Roy K. escribió: 
Hi Jordi,

I think the only place where your environment and our environment meet is the ship code embedded in an XML CSR form.  If this is correct then one possible solution would be for you to use 29SG internally with an automatic translation to 29AH on CSR XML generation.  It is not what I would do: my preference would be to use 29AH and educate people to recognise it as Sarmiento de Gamboa.

Should you choose to go down that road it may be less risky if we were to prevent future allocation of the code '29SG' by ICES.  Is that possible?

Cheers, Roy.

From: jordi sorribas [mailto:sorribas at cmima.csic.es] 
Sent: 08 November 2010 13:30
To: Lowry, Roy K.
Cc: Alberto H. J.; María Jesús García Fernández; platforms; sorribas at utm.csic.es; Sara IDE ICM
Subject: Re: changing code

Hi all,
It seems that is very complicated to change from 29AH to 29SG. For us it is really important to get this code as 29SG because we will use also as a part of the code for naming files (metadata and data) from this ship.
For us and for our SeaDataNetdata center it is very convenient to use these ship code as a part of the filenames because directly suggest  the ship where the files come from.
In this case the assignation of AH is a mistake (nothing to do with the real name of the ship) and as the Sarmiento de Gamboa is really "recent" ship in operation I think that nobody has been produced any metadata related with her yet.
I know and understand the technical difficulties on change any term of the vocabularies but ¿Is there any way to overcome this mistake?
Thank you very much for your help.

Jordi Sorribas (UTM Computing and Telecom Facilities Manager)

El 08/11/10 11:57, Lowry, Roy K. escribió: 
Hello Alberto,

You say there will be no problem if Sarmiento de Gamboa has two different codes.  I strongly disagree.  Both ICES an I publish the platform vocabularies internationally and have published 29AH as the accepted code. How do you know that nobody else is building metadatabases based on the ship code from our publications?  I am pretty sure that groups at Woods Hole and Lamont Doherty are doing this and I know for a fact that USNODC maintain a separate ship code list.  

When suggesting soft deprecation I hadn't fully thought through the issue of how the platform is represented on the Semantic Web.  The result of allocating a second code would be that Sariemnto de Gamboa has two URNs, strings by which she is known to software agents that automatically process metadata.  People might know which code to choose, but a computer will not unless it has been specifically programmed to expect the possibility of two codes, which is highly unlikely.  

Consequently, please stick with the code that has been assigned and avoid these problems.  We have been working with the code of 74E3 for RRS Discovery without any problems.

Regards, Roy.

From: Alberto H. J. [mailto:ahernandez at cmima.csic.es] 
Sent: 08 November 2010 10:44
To: María Jesús García Fernández; Lowry, Roy K.
Cc: platforms; sorribas at utm.csic.es; Sara IDE ICM
Subject: Re: changing code

Dear Roy,

For us your propouse of "soft deprecate" will be suitable. There will not be any problem if the vessel Sarmiento de Gamboa has two codes (the old code 29AH and the new code 29SG).

Because we are the responsible group to public metadates for this vessel and no one else will do this. For this reason there will not be any mistake.

For us this issue is very important because we need that people can identify the ship with its code. We must use this code to create the Metadates.

Cheers,
Alberto.

This is not a good idea as somebody is bound not to read the note. The ICES system will have exactly the same problem.
El 5 de noviembre de 2010 11:23:59 UTC+1, María Jesús García Fernández <MJesus.garcia at md.ieo.es> escribió:
Dear Roy,

I think the code "29AH" has not been used up to now. For this reason probably a "soft deprecate" is not a bad solution. Anyway, I leave to you the decision. 

I am sending a copy of this e-mail to the CSIC/UTM  team interested in changing the code in case they want to make some comments. 

Un saludo, María Jesús

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Lowry, Roy K. [mailto:rkl at bodc.ac.uk] 
Enviado el: 05 November 2010 09:40
Para: María Jesús García Fernández; platforms at biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk
Asunto: RE: changing code 

Sorry María Jesús,

My system is fundamentally designed so that once a code has been assigned to a concept then it cannot be changed.  All I could do is  to 'soft deprecate' the code: in other words Sarmiento de Gamboa would have two codes assigned with a note saying to use the new code rather than the old.  This is not a good idea as somebody is bound not to read the note. The ICES system will have exactly the same problem.

Current thinking is that the code should be meaningless to humans - it is simply a label used by computers to represent the concept. There is at least one example where the convention of having a country code in bytes 1 and 2 has been broken and I'm sure more will follow.

Cheers, Roy. 

From: María Jesús García Fernández [mailto:MJesus.garcia at md.ieo.es] 
Sent: 05 November 2010 07:48
To: platforms at biwebs1.nerc-liv.ac.uk
Cc: Lowry, Roy K.
Subject: changing code 

Dear Platform group,

The operator of the Spnish ship " Sarmiento de Gamboa" is interesting in changing the ship code assigned by the platform group "29AH" . The would prefer a new code "29SG" or similar.  The ship is very new and if a new code is accepted, here in Spain  CSIC and IEO) will take the responsibility to change or ask to change the old code for the new code in the ROSCOP or any other metadatafile.

The information of this Ship:

Name: Sarmiento de Gamboa
Plaformclass: reaserch vessel
Commisioned: 2006
Code asigned:29AH
Notes: Research vessel, built 2008. Operated by CSIC UTM (Marine Technology Unit). Active as at Jun 2007, length 70.5m. 

New code required: 29SG or similar.

Thanks a lot.

Un saludo, María Jesús

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Alberto Hernández Jiménez

Dpto. de Telemática (Informática y Comunicaciones)
Unidad de Tecnología Marina (UTM-CSIC)
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-- 
Jordi Sorribas Cervantes

Sección de Ingeniería Telemática
Unidad de Tecnología Marina, (CSIC)
Paseo Marítimo de la Barceloneta, 37-49
08003 Barcelona

Tlf.: +34 932309500 / 932309618
Mov.: +34 608346479
Fax.: +34 932309555

-- 
Jordi Sorribas Cervantes

Sección de Ingeniería Telemática
Unidad de Tecnología Marina, (CSIC)
Paseo Marítimo de la Barceloneta, 37-49
08003 Barcelona

Tlf.: +34 932309500 / 932309618
Mov.: +34 608346479
Fax.: +34 932309555

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